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Posted by: Thunderbolt Mar 28 2015, 12:29 AM

Hey guys
This thread will be about the journey of my 1993 AE94 Corolla Liftback / Seca.
I live in Australia.
No it isn't a road car, but a multipurpose race car.
Its powered by the infamous 4AGE 20V Blacktop.
So far, it has cost around $2500-3000 in total.

So lets begin...


May 2014 ; 6 months ownership, rolled at local hillclimb, this red hatch was the car that contained the 4AGE, and I knew it still ran even after the crash.


June 2014 ; New shell is ready, a 1993 Corolla SECA (Aussie liftback).


July 2014 ; 1 month and a surgery later, the new car starts up, with no exhaust what so ever.





March 2015 ; how it sits now (after a minor bend and another surgery)
It has the following mods :
-Striped interior
-SAAS bucket seat
-Monza 6 point harness
-Custom rear strut brace
-Toyota steering wheel (TRD?)
-Lowered with king springs
-4AGE 20v Blacktop (with air flow meter ) (Silvertop wiring loom?)
-oil catch can
-thermo fan wired to dash
-custom straight through exhaust, side exit

It is currently out of action due to a tempermental ISCV (Idle Speed Control Valve) and I should have a new 1 in the next few days (hopefully)

I plan to apply the following mods
- SX/GTI rear disc conversion
- SX/GTI front disc upgrade
- fix minor crash damage to front right fender
- Stiffer springs all round (handles like a boat on tarmac)
- Anti sway bars?
- Replace air flow meter with MAP and Air temp sensors
- SX boot lid spoiler
-SX / GTI gauge cluster

I currently race on both dirt and occasionally tarmac, which is why I have both a set of freshly worn rally tires, and a set of cheap semi slicks

NOTE : my family is not rich,
also, I am 15, and while I am not a mechanic of any sort, but I do know plenty about the 20v.
I do not know how often I will update this thread due to school and funding

(Also something to note, i am a massive INITIAL D fan!)

thanks for reading

Posted by: Sir KV Mar 28 2015, 11:51 AM

yus

thats awesome dude.

Posted by: Kevin Mar 29 2015, 09:43 PM

very nice, love the 20v. I have a redtop 4agze 16v myself.
you have a nice list of things to do
any particular reason your want to switch from maf to map?

Posted by: Thunderbolt Mar 30 2015, 02:42 AM

haha thanks guys
3rd gens are awesome, was it in an AE92 Levin / Trueno?
The vane type air flow meter restricts air flow, where as if I have a MAP, I can just take off the plenum entirely and have trumpets with filters (or cold air intake, not really sure right now).
And to make the MAP work I also have an Air Temp Sensor to go along with it.

The ISCV finally came today, so I will be disassembling it entirely and giving it a good scrub before it goes on, and damn they are in a tight spot ; right under the throttle bodies.

A month or so ago, I bought a new power steering pump to replace the leaky one, and it seems that the pump is at a wonky angle and needs both a balancer pulley, and maybe a new bracket, so im in the middle of deciding whether I should do all the work to have power steering, or just leave it out. I have driven it without power steering (around my tiny back yard) an it sure gives a good workout, and I do plan to do a few motorkanas in it. So long story short, kinda stuck on what to do.

(bought some MOS : electro house sessions for those long nights ahead )

Posted by: Noodles Mar 30 2015, 02:57 AM

ive got MOS sound of dubstep albums everywhere in my car haha

sick car mate

Posted by: Kevin Mar 30 2015, 03:02 AM

I took the power steering out because it was a nightmare to even think about putting it in my 86 after the 4agze swap. switched to an mr2 manual rack. Mine came from a MR2. I would have preferred a Levin because of how the plumbing is but with some work I'll eventually get it going again. The swap also gave me the chance to trade out my lines for braided lines and smaller S/C pulley. I can't wait to get my engine going again.

Posted by: Thunderbolt Mar 31 2015, 02:24 AM

Sounds interesting


Well now ive hit a wall

I cleaned and installed the new ISCV, worked ok last night.
Today I wake up, start it, and about to go for a spin when poof, it shuts off. I start it up again, after a full minute.
Now its doing what it was doing before, hunting to find the idle, and wont rev over 4000
Also, its chucked 2 more codes ; numbers 12 and 13 (both RPM signals), this is certainly not the first time its happened.
But in the 6 months of constant problems, ive seen 6 different codes, and all of them have 1 diagnosis in common ; the ECU
I have already eliminated any other possible suspects, and im positive that its the ECU.

So in other words ; if anyone has a 4AGE 20V BLACKTOP ECU they have for sale, please notify me (must be manual, preferably in AUS)

Posted by: Kevin Mar 31 2015, 02:31 AM

No body else but NHR and I have 4AGEs lol you'd have much better luck on club4ag or ebay

Posted by: Thunderbolt Mar 31 2015, 05:36 AM

haha absolutely lovin MOS right now

Posted by: Thunderbolt Mar 31 2015, 05:40 AM

What 4AGE does NHR have?

Ive searched on eBay and found a 6spd ecu in US, and a Greddy E-manage in AUS, both around same price, probably go for stock if possible.
At least, I would if I myself wasn't broke and with no employment

Posted by: Kevin Mar 31 2015, 02:04 PM

a redtop 16v in his 92
I'd try club4ag forum. When I couldn't locate parts on local sell sites or ebay I always go there

Posted by: Thunderbolt Apr 2 2015, 02:46 AM

thanks for the advice, Club4AG seems like a busy little place
Yesterday I decided to take a look at my ignition coil just out of curiosity. Checked the resistance...and....waay out.
So now I know I need a new coil, but still not sure about ECU
Im wondering if its possible to have someone look at he ECU ?

I have a Hillclimb on the 19th and hoping ill make it in 1 of my 3 cars, whether it be this, my other 92 hatch with a snapped timing belt, or my wannabe racer 1988 N13 Pulsar

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH, so many cars to fix.......

I am really keen to get this car going, but sometime I feel like I should just sell everything and start again

Posted by: Sir KV Apr 2 2015, 05:13 PM

they should get some love too imo

Posted by: Thunderbolt Apr 3 2015, 01:39 AM

Well the Pulsar is not getting fuel through the new filter........
And my other AE92 has sooooo much oil over the bottom end its not even funny, and I cannot get the crank pulley off, and its got some really nice alloys that it wont let me have...

Still have not found a new ignition coil, so looks like it might be a while before anything more is heard from the SECA, not to mention it hasn't moved from its spot for 4 months...

Posted by: Thunderbolt Apr 20 2015, 11:51 AM

OK, so a bit of an update.
I bought a new ignition coil, and is ready to be fitted.

Also, i took a look at the ECU, and it appears that some of the capacitors have leaked and spread across some of the other signals and interfered. I do not have photos, as it has already been sent to Melbourne to be fixed (?).

While this is happening, i will attempt to fully repair some previous crash damage to the front right corner of the shell. I need this done so that i can properly close the bonnet.

NOTE : in late 90's Toyota ECUs, the capacitors used were only supposed to last 5-10 years and were of real bad quality, this meant they had a tendency to leak, which is exactly what has happened to me. So if you have a late 90's Toyota, check your ECU!

Posted by: Thunderbolt May 12 2015, 04:04 AM

Its been a while since anyone commented
anyway
ive bought an recieved a new ECU, but i have realised something ; i may actually have silvertop ITB instead of Blacktop ITB, because the port for the MAP sensor has been blocked off, and it looks factory.
The ECU that came with the engine was a silvertop ECU, even though everything engine is Blacktop???

I have 2 theorys to this
1. The engine is a silvertop painted black with plastic parts put on
2. The engine was botched together ; blacktop head, block, internals with silvertop ITB, AFM, and wiring loom, and the ECU tuned to accomodate

The previous owner said that the guy before him had indeed tuned the ECU, but didnt tell me how.

I am really confused right now, and i have a sprint event on this SUNDAY, so i really need to figure out what is going on before then.

I will put up the part numbers when i get home from school.

Also, i plan to hook up the ECU tonight and give it a go, hopefully nothing bad will happen

If anyone has suggestions or ideas, let me know.

Posted by: Oggy May 12 2015, 09:35 AM

You can tell if its a silver top by the Intake manifold, among many other things, but that is any easy way to tell. Just look at pics, they are obviously different. Or if you can measure s**t precisely, the ST throttles are smaller than BT, I forget the actual mm measurements off hand though. As for the block, the rods are different but that is not something you can just check.

I think its ST because BT's have MAP from the factory, and I have no idea why anyone would swap back to MAF.

I have a BT btw. They can be quite finicky, and most swaps never ever idle like stock (~850rpm). I am deleting my ISCV and setting idle with the throttles. This is no problem for the engine or ECU, it just requires a little throttle on start and warmup then no more idle issues (seriously those ISCV's are total pieces of s**t).

Posted by: Thunderbolt May 12 2015, 12:44 PM

The plenum is from a Blacktop, because it has no writing , and its , black.
However, the throttle bodies might be from a Silvertop, and i dont know if i can be bothered pulling it apart to check the size (lazy huh).
I wish there were more ways to check the differences from the outside without having to dig for them.
The explanation i'm most comfortable with is ; its a Silvertop painted black, nothing more. Or at least thats what im praying for right now................ rather than being botched together with a mix of both Silvertop and Blacktop.

I know what you mean by the ISCV, they had to put it right under the throttle bodies, behind some bracket, and then some????
I had no idea that the ISCV could be deleted? From my experience, it will also adjust the air-fuel ratio?

Anyway
Tonight i plugged in the new ECU, and ignition coil, it fired up first go, still idles like s**t (1700RPM), when i get time tomorrow, i will check the air flow meter, and adjust as needed.

Also....13 inch 4 stud rims are ******* hard to find in Australia, i mean RARE, and its so fricking annoying

(BTW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, AFM = air flow meter, what the ST comes with,,,,,,,,,,,MAF = mass air flow sensor,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,MAP = manifold absolute pressure)

Posted by: Thunderbolt May 12 2015, 12:45 PM

The plenum is from a Blacktop, because it has no writing , and its , black.
However, the throttle bodies might be from a Silvertop, and i dont know if i can be bothered pulling it apart to check the size (lazy huh).
I wish there were more ways to check the differences from the outside without having to dig for them.
The explanation i'm most comfortable with is ; its a Silvertop painted black, nothing more. Or at least thats what im praying for right now................ rather than being botched together with a mix of both Silvertop and Blacktop.

I know what you mean by the ISCV, they had to put it right under the throttle bodies, behind some bracket, and then some????
I had no idea that the ISCV could be deleted? From my experience, it will also adjust the air-fuel ratio?

Anyway
Tonight i plugged in the new ECU, and ignition coil, it fired up first go, still idles like s**t (1700RPM), when i get time tomorrow, i will check the air flow meter, and adjust as needed.

Also....13 inch 4 stud alloy rims are ******* hard to find in Australia, i mean RARE, and its so fricking annoying

(BTW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, AFM = air flow meter, what the ST comes with,,,,,,,,,,,MAF = mass air flow sensor,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,MAP = manifold absolute pressure)

Posted by: Oggy May 12 2015, 05:15 PM

Yeah yeah you know what I meant, I posted at like 3:00AM. You have an AFM which I have no idea why a BT would have. A lot of ST guys swap to BT electronics, I have never seen the other way around.

The ISCV is just a simple magnetic valve that opens and closes to allow more air in. The problem is the very rarely ever close entirely, raising the idle. So it can be deleted. But then you need to balance the throttles properly.

As for the manifold, see if you can see this with the airbox bolted on:
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr289/BorrisProjekt/DSC00180.jpg
ST on top BT on bottom. BT has an extra little bit coming off where the throttles bolt to the airbox. (on the top of each mounting face). Maybe you can feel around and see if your throttles have that with the airbox still on. If you don't know what I am talking about I can edit the pic to show.

good luck

EDIT: nvm, I did it anyway: http://i.imgur.com/vdqDwxi.png
The red bits I outlined you should be able to feel around for. Also on the throttle with the arrow, the ST has a mount for the throttle linkage that is the same as all the other throttles. The BT does not have a mount for the linkage on that particular throttle (its a different casting since that one has the TPS on it). You should have your answer now.

EDIT: Jesus when did autocorrect make the jump to my laptop... now airbox is airbag... f**k this s**t

Posted by: Thunderbolt May 25 2015, 09:43 AM

Another update......been a while i know
I made a disturbing discovery........ everything mechnical is 20V Blacktop..........everything electrical is 20V Silvertop
My throttle bodies ARE Blacktop, but the MAP port is blocked off and looks stock, will upload image when i can.
My ECU is a tuned SILVERTOP, the loom is a SILVERTOP...... the actual engine is BLACKTOP.

Cheapest and easiest option is to fix the original ECU, I'd prefer a professional did it, but i will do it as a last resort. Other option is to buy BLACKTOP ECU and loom (one plug difference) and cut it up, which will be expensive and time consuming.

Still unemployed.....

I want to get my hands on a 4AGZE, once i get the money, and after this engine dies.

Dont really know if i should still be continuing this build

Posted by: Vicent M. May 25 2015, 11:46 AM

Problem of car life is the money, ive bought the Primera and this month is s**tty, glad next week is payday lol

Hope you can fix it soon, car looks promising, you should continue it!

Posted by: Kevin May 27 2015, 08:26 PM

you got quite the Frankenstein motor lol
and luckily for you the 4agze is made for horizontal configurations. It would almost be plug and play if you went that route. Trying to convert mine has been a challenge as the entire cooling system on my engine was shot and had to be bought again and not many people part out just coolant lines when they know they might need them again.

Posted by: Thunderbolt Jun 4 2015, 08:13 AM

I bought a new ECU ,this time a proper BLACKTOP ECU, along with a 22-pin plug to suit. Also scavenged a MAP sensor an Air Temp sensor from a 4AFE, i've heard some controversy as to whether a 4AFE MAP sensor will work on a 4AGE 20V, but i don't see why it wouldn't.
overall fairly cheap, but time will tell, hopefully it will arrive before next Sunday, as i am entering a local motorkhana / autocross, and id love to drive this instead of renting a club car ;(
If anyone has any advice on re-wiring / repinning an ecu plug, let me know
(Really hoping that none of the caps have leaked in the new ecu)

Posted by: Thunderbolt Jun 7 2015, 12:08 PM

Currently wiring and plumbing new sensors.
Could any Toyota boffins please let me know if this will work
VSV = VSV for EVAP (emissions)

Posted by: Thunderbolt Jun 7 2015, 12:09 PM

I'm also wondering if I should just remove the wires from the old plug with the pins, and then insert into new plug,
or manually attach each wire to the new pin for the new plug
(for ECU)

Posted by: Oggy Jun 26 2015, 03:48 AM

MAP should have it's own, dedicated vac line behind the butterflies. On a blacktop manifold, there is a special nipple just for the MAP. It draws vacuum from each cylinder by way of a channel in the manifold... but you should be fine drawing from only one cylinder.

You need to get rid of the T. Connect the MAP to the vac port on throttle 4, which you have the thick blue line drawn on.

The green line from the vacuum rail is correct, that is for the VSV. I'm not sure what the other line marked VSV is. There should be two lines coming of the VSV valve. One goes to the charcoal canister, and one goes to the nipple on the vacuum rail (as you have it marked).

The airbox one is unnecessary. That was for AC/PS idle up. Just cap it. The line to the airbox should come from the nipple on the back of the valve cover instead, and is part of the PCV system.

Oh, and to clean it up a bit, you can twist the ISCV vac line nipple so it faces down towards the ISCV, instead of sideways, as seen here (step 15+16): http://www.garage-annex.com/kitmanual.html

Posted by: Thunderbolt Jul 28 2015, 06:39 AM

Thanks for that Oggy, ima be onto that asap.

The whole ECU plug this was the last straw, i refuse to use this loom anymoe.
And to that effect, im now in the market for a new harness/loom.

So if ANYONE hears of a usable 4A-GE 20V Blacktop wiring harness/loom for sale, pls let me know.

Recently i bought ANOTHER corolla, this time an ae82 twin cam seca liftback. Rebuilt engine and not even started, so this new car is first in line, and the white seca has been shunted aside for now.
I am most definitely NOT going away from this car, i am merely pausing until a new loom is found, and this new car is run in...

So don't be surprised if this thread isn't updated for a few months...